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Greg: So in today’s podcast, we’ve got Rachel Keball. Now Rachel is a specialist in training project managers, being a project manager herself, and she really helps align project management so they know what they’re. Purposes and so that they can have peace in their job, which doesn’t sound realistic, does it?
When a project manager’s job can be so hectic. But when you listen to this, you’ll really understand why Rachel’s principles work. Now, if you’ve ever tried to hire a project manager, or maybe you are ready to hire a project manager, now you’re gonna get some great tips on some of the things you wanna do to ensure your project manager performs at their best.
So have a listen to this. You’re gonna enjoy it.
Right. Well Rachel, great to have you on the podcast. Really nice for you to be here.
Rachael: Great to be here, Greg. Looking forward to this conversation.
Greg: Yeah. And um, Rachel, you’re telling me, you, you are currently in the uk you, but you don’t always live in the uk, UK do you?
Rachael: No, I like to flip flop between, uh, Dubai, where I, where I live permanently and the UK ’cause I’ve got lots of clients that span the two continents.
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So I’m, uh, I’m always on a plane at the moment.
Greg: Lovely. Best of both worlds. Get the, uh, get the heat when you want it. Oh yeah, absolutely. Back to UK when not no good stuff. Okay, so. Rachel, maybe for our listeners that haven’t met you and don’t know what you do, can you give us a little bit of an intro onto, um, what you do?
Rachael: Yeah, of course. So, um, basically my mission is to bring peace and purpose into project management, which is a very fancy way of saying I’ve been a project manager for coming up to a decade and a half. And predominantly that was in the construction industry, although I did a little bit of third sector stuff as well.
And I found that. Most project managers that I was working with were pretty stressed out, pretty overwhelmed, and actually that they’d lost that kind of ability to think about their career. And so that’s, that’s what I’m doing now. I mean, I, I do that in a number of capacities. I am a non-executive director for several.
SMEs. I sit on a number of boards as well as a trustee for the Chartered Institute of Buildings, and my passion project is my company BuiltWell, which is all about training and empowering project managers to take hold of their careers.
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Because I genuinely believe that when project managers are empowered, our projects are better, and therefore our businesses are better, and therefore society is better.
Greg: Love it. That’s fantastic Rachel. So this is gonna be a really interesting podcast for my listeners. As you know, people listening to this are trying to grow construction businesses from anywhere from sort of one to 10 million pounds or dollars. Um, so I guess we’re looking at this from two sides.
You are coming at it from probably both sides actually, but mainly from the project manager side. And then some listen to this will be employing project managers and, and they’re gonna be looking at it from the business owner side thinking, maybe why isn’t my project manager performing?
Or, I’ve had one good project manager, but the, the other’s useless. So it’s gonna be interesting just to see how we can navigate those challenges. So tell me a little bit more about how you got into project management. So how did, how did your sort of career begin?
Rachael: Completely by accident.
Um, and the same with the construction industry as well. You know, obviously being a woman in the construction industry.
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I am very much in the minority and I kind of just stumbled in it. So I started as a English literature graduate. Then I went in and dabbled in accountancy, which was a big failure ’cause I’m definitely not, not that type of personality.
And then I remember watching this program called Climbing Britain’s Buildings. Um, and it was amazing. It was. It was all about climbing up and getting into the architecture of the buildings. And I thought, oh yeah, that sounds kind of cool. I like the idea of being able to look at the horizon and say, I was part of building that building or part of managing the process of building that building.
And so I kind of accidentally fell into project management within the construction industry, uh, when I was in my kind of early, mid twenties. And just loved it. Just fell in love with it. Um, you know, lucky to have worked all around the south of the UK and on projects now, uh, in, in the UAE as well in an advisory capacity.
And it’s just, it’s just been fantastic. But I certainly haven’t followed the kind of traditional path into the industry or into project management. And now recently as a business owner as well.
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I think I can resonate actually a lot with what your audience are doing because having become an entrepreneur myself two years ago, I know just how stressful it can be, especially when you’re starting to get on board those, uh, those first few people in an organisation.
Greg: Yeah. It, it, it can be stressful. And interestingly enough, I think for many construction business owners, that’s their first big hire is a project manager that seems to be the, the main one that they go for.
And it can feel like a bit make or break. You know, if you get the right project manager, your life is all of a sudden amazing. And if you get the wrong one, it, it can just be an absolute disaster. So, what do you think some of the problems are when someone’s initially hiring a project manager? A business owner.
What, what do you think some of the issues are of why, you know, why it may, may go wrong? Are they, is it wrong expectations, or what do you think are the initial dangers?
Rachael: Well, in, I mean, in my experience, most new entrepreneurs in the construction industry either go for a sales director or a project manager.
Those are the first major hires.
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That’s where they’re putting their money into it. But what tends to happen is that either that, that business owner waits a little bit too long, or they don’t do the work themselves necessary to place that person properly within the business. So you know, any entrepreneur, we’re hitting the ground running.
We’ve got a million things on our plates. We’re, we’re throwing things in the air constantly. We’re focused on can we even keep the business afloat? What’s our cash flow? You know, you know, if I’ve got support staff on the books already, how can I keep paying them each month? That’s the right focus.
But often then we end up with kind of one or two pivotal clients that start to come into the business and we think, oh my God, I’m going to need some help. Therefore I need to get a project manager on board. And what we don’t do is kind of slow down before we speed up. And so the first thing that I would give the per first piece of advice I would give to any person looking to employ a project manager to come into a new business is stop.
Do an honest skills gap of yourself.
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Do the audit on where you are good, where you are not so good, and where you’re pretty terrible, because that’s gonna form the basis of the project manager that you are gonna get on board. And let’s not forget that project management as a profession, it’s the fastest growing profession globally.
You know, there’s going to be, I think I’ve got the figure here, 25 million new project managers by 2030. And I like to tell this anecdote because it’s quite useful, um, that when I was still kind of climbing my career ladder as a project manager, I went into a meeting for this, uh, new construction of, uh, headquarters for private medical provider in the uk and um, I sat down in this meeting, it was partway through the project and we went round the table. There was about 12 people in the room and nine of the 12 of us introduced ourselves as project managers. You know, there was the IT project manager and the fit out project manager and the construction project manager, and it kind of came back round to me and I was like.
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I guess I’m the project project manager, so project management has become this kind of term that’s all encompassing, and the first thing that anyone needs to do before they get someone on board is to figure out what the business needs, what they need to support them as an entrepreneur, and kind of build that skills profile before they go out to the market.
Greg: Yeah, I like that. So, interestingly enough just talking about that skills gap that you mentioned for the leader of the business, that’s probably something that many business owners don’t even think about or consider. So when we’re talking about that skills gap, are we talking about their leadership roles as the business owner?
Or are we talking about the skills gaps they’ve got in their own project management? Because I think most business owners will have been the project manager all the way through, and now they’ve gotta step back and move away from that. So what are we talking about here?
Rachael: Uh, I mean, a bit of both to be honest.
It’s about what’s the long-term plan for your business, okay? Because you, as the entrepreneur, you’ll have been doing everything. And you know, I should listen to my own advice as I’m scaling my business, to be honest as well. You know, I’m guilty as charged. Um, but the first thing that we need to do is to be stepping back and thinking, where’s the business going?
And therefore, what am I hiring for, not just now in this next year, because there’s suddenly a need in the business for it.
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But how’s that person gonna adapt in the business in, in three years time, in five years time, in 10 years time? And I always say that the, the, it’s difficult because it can feel a bit chicken and egg.
You’re like, I need to find someone that’s gonna compliment my skills, but also someone that’s gonna align with me. And so my advice would always be to find someone whose skills are opposite to you. Okay? So their natural abilities of doing things are kind of filling in the gaps of where you are. But importantly, their values are aligned.
Okay? So the worst thing that we can do as an entrepreneur is to bring someone into the business and have that clash in values and feel like we’re constantly fighting or just not quite on the same page. So it’s always about making sure that we’ve got the values completely squared up and we’re looking for someone that is aligned with our business values, aligned with the type of life that we want to live.
As entrepreneurs, usually we go into business because we want to create. That type of life for ourselves and our families, and we want to have a bit more ownership over our career.
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So getting that really firmly squared away and using that as the value, as the canvas for what we are looking for in a person, but making sure that we have complimentary skills to kind of patch in where we are not so good naturally as leaders.
Greg: Yeah, that’s really good. I think probably a lot, don’t spend enough time on that job description when they’re putting that out there, you know, actually putting a value piece in, you know, a job description can sometimes just be right, this is what I’m expecting you to do and this is the skillset you need.
But actually to put your values on there as a, as a company owner is really important too. So that’s a, that’s a great point. Thinking about when we’re hiring them, because one of the problems. With hiring a project manager is, as you’ve already highlighted, there’s so many different skill sets with project managers.
So you get some that say, for example, might be great at the domestic market and great at doing domestic build. Some might be commercial. So do you think that matters when you’re hiring? Do you think you need someone that’s got the specific skill set you’re looking for? Can they be more general? Like, what, what do you think we’re aiming for here when we’re hiring?
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Rachael: So I think any project manager you need to be hiring a generalist. If you needed a specialist, you shouldn’t be hiring a project manager. You know, if you need someone that’s going to be giving you really good commercial acumen, then you need to be hiring a commercial advisor. If you’re looking for someone that’s gonna help you through a legal process and you need to probably be getting legal counsel, project managers.
Our generalists. That is where we bring our value, the ability to step back, step outta the detail, keep things on track so that we can achieve that hopefully help you achieve that golden triangle of being delivered on time, on budget to quality, uh, without compromising health and safety and, um.
It’s about making sure that we, we are hiring with that in mind so that we can keep the focus on exactly what type of project manager we want to bring into the business. ’cause as you said, the project management market is completely saturated. And we, what we probably need is. As entrepreneurs is that person that’s gonna fill in that skills audit as we’ve already talked about, and help us deliver that plan, that wider plan for the business.
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So it’s always good. And I always say this as well, because really you want a project manager that’s a generalist but if they can be a specialist in one area. That it’s really aligned to your business, then that’s only gonna help. Because when they’re representing you at conferences, at talks, at business development meetings, if they can say, do you know what I’m actually I’m a brilliant project manager, but this is, uh, a highly technical project.
You know, we’re building a data center, for example, and I am really, really hot in tech. Then that’s only gonna be bringing extra value into your business. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, it’s about balancing that generalist specialist profile within the project manager You’re hiring.
Greg: Yeah, that, that’s really interesting.
So, so when you are looking at a CV and you’re scanning through a cv, is there any things that you should be looking for in there? Any clues that would say, yeah, this, this candidate’s worth pursuing? Any particular things or red flags even in a cv you think? Actually that’s probably not what I should be looking for.
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Rachael: So first thing is is their CV coming across well? Is it easy to read? Does it communicate well? Because as project managers, we need to be the masters of communication, and if we’re not doing that on paper, we’re probably not gonna be able to do that in reports with our teams in our meetings. Okay? So the first thing you should be looking for is, is this CV easy to read?
Do I get who this person is? The second thing is, are there up-to-date qualifications? Has this person invested in in CPD for themselves? Because, you know, the construction industry, it’s a slow moving beast, but things are changing all the time, and every project that we work on is different. Every team we work on is different, and therefore we need to make sure that we’re updating our skills and staying up to date in our profiles.
One of the biggest questions that I get asked when I talk at events is. Which is the best project management qualification to get, and it almost doesn’t matter. It’s actually just having that aptitude, uh, you know, for skills development that, that, that ability to invest in yourself that you want to see demonstrated on the cv.
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And the third thing I’d say is that you want to be looking for, uh, a broader range of experience kind of e early days so that you can see that they’ve. Experience lots of different types of projects, but then kind of slowly funneling up into more of a specialism that might be more aligned to what your business does.
Greg: Hey, can I just ask a quick favor? We are constantly trying to bring on the best guests on this podcast so we can deliver as much value as possible, but the only way we can do that is if we get more subscribers, more likes, more comments, and more reviews. So subscribe to this channel and click notifications so you know, every time we’ve got a new video coming up, give us a review if you’re getting any value from it, and give us a thumbs up.
We’d really appreciate that.
Yeah, okay. That’s really valuable advice there. Rachel um, let’s imagine now that we’ve got the CVS out, we’ve, we’ve done the interviews, everything’s gone well. They’re aligned with our values and purpose. So we’ve made the hire let’s talk about onboarding.
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Because I think sometimes the danger is let’s just leave them to sink or swim.
And you think that you’ve got someone on board and you could just step away now. So tell us about why onboarding is so important.
Rachael: Because no one knows your brain like you. And no matter what the hire is, whether it’s a project manager, a salesperson, who it is, they’re not mind readers. And it’s very easy.
As entrepreneurs, we live and we breathe our business, and I think a lot of frustration can come when it’s like, why doesn’t this person get it? You know, like, I’m so passionate about what I do. Um, why doesn’t that person get it? So first of all, we have to be able to communicate with that person really, really clearly, especially as the team’s growing.
We’ve got to be able to sit down and probably do a bit more of a detailed analysis of the roles and responsibilities that that person will be carrying out as the business grows. And that’s after they’ve been hired. You’ve kind of done the skills audit for yourself. You’ve pulled together a job description, you’ve got great cvs and you’ve hired on that basis, but it needs to be a continual rolling thing.
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You know, as projects develop, as the business grows and develops, the needs of it will develop quite quickly as well. And it’s really important that you’re having those regular touch points with the project manager to keep them on board to make sure that they’re up to date with where the business is going.
Now we’re in month three, now we’re in month six, now we’re in year two, whatever. So that they understand. And can be your best ambassador as they’re going out into the market and doing their job.
Greg: And, and what do you think the cadence should be on, on when you’re onboarding someone? How often do you think you should be meeting with a new hire?
Just, you know, just to check in with them to see how things are going and getting updates on projects.
Rachael: Honestly, it depends on where you are within the business. If you’ve been going a few months, or you’ve been going a few weeks every day because you’ve not got time to lose by having someone going off and it can be a 10 minute conversation, a 10 minute touch point that can bring everyone back and just stop the kind of veering off on different paths.
Obviously as a business matures and you get busier, that can be more difficult.
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But I’d always say that, um, spending the 10 minutes to make sure that person is on board is always gonna save you time. Having to kind of correct the path when things go wrong in the future. And then probably as you’re getting someone’s been on board for a few months, you probably wanna dial that back to twice a week to, you know, you can tailor it off depending on how much confidence you’ve built with that person as well.
But I’d say more is, is better at the start just to make sure that you’re all heading in the right direction.
Greg: No. Sounds good. Um, let’s just talk about when your project manager on board, they, they get started, you’re having your, your regular touchpoints with them. I think one question that comes up a lot with, especially some of the, the clients that we are coaching and they’re just gonna hire a PM for the first time, is what actually should a PM be doing?
Like, what is their day-to-day role that they can take off of me? What do you think some of the pivotal things are that you would expect a a PM to do? ’cause sometimes you’ve had it where. They’re doing something and they say, well, actually no, that’s the owner’s responsibility. That’s not me.
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What, what do you think a standard, I know it varies, but what do you think a standard job description of a project manager should be?
Rachael: So let’s not forget that skills audit that we’ve already done as an entrepreneur and that’s gonna be the basis of all of this. But first off, the, the project manager should be in my mind, all about streamlining processes and working with people.
Okay, so what does that mean? It means that actually they need to be doing some of the operational stuff internally. That frees up your time as an entrepreneur, as the business leader to be doing that. Blue sky thinking. So too often as entrepreneurs, we end up getting dragged down and down into more, uh, operational matters into day-to-day stuff.
And what your PM should be doing is grabbing some of that stuff and taking it off you so that you can keep moving the business forward. You can keep meeting with those key clients that are gonna transform the nature of your business and that that project manager should, should be the support there.
They also, in my mind, should always play a really key role in in recruitment. So as you are growing your business, recruiting your team is probably going to be the biggest decision that you are going to be making for the business because it can make or break the culture, it can make or break your reputation.
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I actually think the people you bring into the business is more important than the clients that you’re choosing to work with often for the longevity of the business and the quality of what you are doing. And the project manager can play a huge supporting role there because. Even if you are a project manager from a more traditional built environment background where you’re going out and you are, you are the project manager on a new build, for example or on a refurb, you’re still using those same skills, which is pulling together a team, you know, pulling together your, your design responsibility matrix, pulling together your, your, um, responsible parties, you’re accountable, you are control, all of those responsibilities and mapping them across the organisation.
So. In terms of the actual relationship between the entrepreneur and the project manager, you as the entrepreneur is your business. You need to be saying, look, this is the roadmap. Month one, this is what we’re gonna be doing by month six. This is what we’re gonna be doing by year three, this is what we’re gonna be doing.
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The project manager should be saying, okay, great. This is how we’re gonna do it, how we can systemize it. Um, so that in three years time we are not making things up from scratch. As much is automated as possible, and that we have the right. Team embedded with the right roles and responsibilities to do what the organisation wants to set out to do.
Greg: So it just, you just going through that just shows the value of a really good project manager. I mean, it’s actually gonna take a huge amount off of the business owner, isn’t it, if you get the right one. So that’s, that’s really valuable. So, um. Let’s talk about continual training for the project manager then.
So as a business owner, what do you think you should be doing as a business owner to keep your project managers moving forward? Keep getting ’em trained. Any particular courses they should be going on or any associations they should be joining that can be valuable.
Rachael: So, um, again, I, I would never like to recommend specific qualifications or specific organisations because it depends on the nature of your business.
It depends on the nature of the project manager.
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I think what’s more important is that there is that CPD going and that there is that networking through these, um, through these businesses as well. And. Let’s not forget the role that tech’s playing in the construction industry as well. We’re seeing more and more automation, more and more tech coming in that’s taking away some of the more traditional roles of a project manager.
So, you know, when I started out in the industry, um, kind of 12, 14 years ago we were still doing all of our risk registers pretty manually. You can get chat GPT to draft up a generic. Risk register for you pretty quickly now in a matter of minutes. And then it takes, what, an hour long, two hour long workshop with the team to make that specific to your project.
So we want to be making sure that the project manager is, is technically astute, but what does that mean in terms of the way that the role of a project manager is changing? It’s that some of those, um, scheduling pieces. Are becoming automated. So it’s actually meaning that there is a bigger focus for project managers on the leadership and the soft skills of a team.
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So how we can get a team working together, how we can create that culture within a team, how we can navigate conflict, all of the stuff that a bot can’t do for us. ’cause it doesn’t understand yet, um, how the human brain works and how the psychology of teams work. And so that’s what we want to be doing as project managers.
So. You’re always gonna have a safe bet if you are investing in, uh, soft skills leadership training for your project management, for your project manager, if there’s anything specifically technical that you do within your business, any training so that they have that understanding and that back background as well.
Without them being able to become a specialist, you know, you still wanna keep that generalist step back. And then organisations like the Chartered Institute of Buildings, um, you know, are. Brilliant because it’s all about networking and it’s all about CPD and it’s all about raising your profile.
And having a project manager that is well connected that can kind of, when something hits a problem that they can say, oh, do you know what? I can go to my little black book and I can, I can speak to someone that can help, or I can get a little bit of advice. Is. Really, really important for any growing business.
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Mm-hmm. Um, so I think rather than specific qualifications, I’d say that you want to be looking towards making sure your project manager has those leadership, those soft skills and those technical qualifications. But also that they are affiliated with other organisations, other external parties, so that they’re raising their profile, they’re making contacts, and they’re networking and they’ve got that little black book that will help you when things might get a bit sticky.
Greg: Yeah. That’s really, really good advice there. You’ve covered actually a lot of value there in just those, um, those few minutes. So just breaking that down a little bit because I think, um. The big focus at the moment is obviously on the technical skills for, with what’s going on with ai. Everyone’s looking at the technical skills and it’s actually quite hard to keep up, isn’t it?
With actually what’s going on with this. And a lot of business owners will be investing in their teams and their PMs to upskill in the technical skills, and rightly so. We, we want them to be really productive in this, but I think it’s absolutely crucial that, like you said those soft skills, those leadership skills that can sometimes be forgotten.
Yeah. But I guess the reality is, is.
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In two, three years time, everyone’s gonna have a massive uplift in the technical skills. You’re gonna have to, aren’t you if you’re gonna keep up. So everyone will be performing at a unbelievable standard technically, because AI’s gonna take over in that. But that’s when you’re really gonna see the difference of those who are actually got the leadership skills and, and the soft skills to deal with people.
So I think that’s really, really useful advice that you’ve, uh, you’ve mentioned there. Maybe just some practical takeaways for business owners listening to this. Let’s imagine we’ve got two different types of business owners at the moment. Let’s imagine we’ve got one who’s knows they need a pm, they’re run ragged, and they know that that’s their next hire.
Um, what, what advice would you give them? Some practical takeaways maybe three points that they can take away from this and implement.
Rachael: I know it sounds counterintuitive and I’ve been there myself when everything’s moving 150 miles an hour and you’re like, oh my God. But my first piece of advice would be slow down before you can speed up.
Okay. This hire is gonna be critical.
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It can, uh, undermine the the values of your business. It can cause more headaches for you in the longer term, and they can be expensive as well. So do that piece where you actually do that. Honest skills, audit of what you need, where the business is going to go and use that as the funnel for finding someone that’s gonna buy into the ethics and the values of your business.
Um, because if you can align that way, you’re gonna be setting yourself up for success. And that’s what we always want to do with as project managers really. The next thing I suggest is that whenever you’re onboarding anyone new, that’s kind of a critical highlight. That is that you actually create a bit of a roadmap for them of what they’re going to be doing in the first kind of month or two as they’re joining.
And I’d always suggest that you break that down into four parts. So the first part being that person needs to sit there and actually look at. What’s going on within the organisation? Okay, so they need to understand the nature of the organisation. The next thing that they need to do is to look at processes within the organisation.
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What processes are there? What aren’t processes? Where can they streamline things? The third thing is they need to spend a little bit of time getting to know some of your clients, getting to know your team, getting to know those. And then the fourth thing is reporting back to you and reflecting on all four of those things.
Doing the gap analysis, coming to you with recommendations and saying, this is what I think you need and this is how I can help you systemize and automate these processes. And then from that perspective, actually then refining their roles and responsibilities because they’re gonna bring stuff to the table that you are too busy to have seen.
And you want to make sure that you update what you’re gonna be getting back from them in those touch points over the, over the next months and years. So that it’s in line with what your business actually needs.
Greg: That’s great. Okay. And let’s, what about, let’s talk about a business owner that already has project managers on board or a project manager on board, and let’s imagine that the project manager isn’t quite serving them the way they want.
Maybe there’s some bad onboarding that’s gone on or whatever, whatever reason is, and they’re, they’re in a bit of a quandary at the moment.
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You know, do they just go out and get another project manager? Can they upskill their existing project manager? What advice would you give to a business owner like that?
Rachael: So if it’s a values or an ethics conflict, then you probably need to be hiring someone else, to be honest, because you are the entrepreneur of your business and you need someone that’s aligning with your business to drive it forward. If it’s a skills gap, what I would be doing is I would be sitting down with that project manager who is probably quite frustrated themselves, um, that they’re not aligned, that this hasn’t gone the way that they expected.
And I’d be saying to them, this isn’t working as, it’s, as it’s kind of going at the moment. Is it, what do you think? Is going wrong. Where do you need more clarity from me? Uh, because this is what I’ve noticed, and, and it’s about that gap analysis. Again, this is my expectation and this is the reality of what’s being delivered.
How do we close this gap? Because at the moment it’s not working. I’m a big one for giving, uh, I think.
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People are brilliant. I think most people turn up to work wanting to do a really good job and wanting to go home, to their families, to their friends, and say, yeah, I had a really amazing week at work this week.
Um, so I think we should always be giving the, uh, anyone that opportunity, um, by just sitting them down, having that honest conversation and. And it’s amazing how many times you sit down with someone and they’ll say, actually, do you know what? This is what I need in order to thrive. This is what I need in order to give you what you need.
Uh, but that conversation has never taken place. And then after that initial conversation where you kind of just. Laid everything out, um, and you’ve kind of started to close that expectation gap, then it’s about again, putting those regular touch points in. What happens as entrepreneurs, we get busy, busy, busy.
And those, those little touch points end up just flipping out of the diary ’cause we’ve got a client meeting that gets booked over or because we’ve got a sales call that gets booked over. And I’m not saying those things aren’t important, of course they are, but making sure that when that client lands, that you’ve got a team that’s fully up to date with what’s going on and can take it away from you.
Probably is more important for the long-term success of your business.
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Greg: Yeah. That’s again, great advice there, Rachel. So I think there’s a lot that a business owner can take away from this. And, any project managers listening too, I guess there’s a fair bit that they can take away too, just about that continual training that they need to be doing and, and working on those leadership skills.
So, lots here. So if anyone wanted to connect with you, Rachel how would they go and do that? What’s the best way of learning more about what you are doing?
Rachael: So you can connect with me on LinkedIn. It’s uh, Rachel Keball. And I actually do a monthly newsletter, completely free called Project Success Without Stress, and it’s filled with lots of project management advice that I think is quite useful for me as a business owner.
It’s helped me reflect on what the journey I’ve been on, in addition to being a project manager as well. Um, or you can visit my, my website as well, www dot. BuiltWell pm.com and on there is our project management personality assessment, which you can do to figure out. It’s just a bit of a fun, fun quiz really to figure out what type of project manager you are.
Greg: That’s great. Well, we’ll put all the things in the show notes as well. All your links there, Rachel. [
00:29:00]
So just so my viewers understand who you are mainly working with, is it are, are you working just with project managers or do you work with business owners to help them deal with their project managers better as well?
Rachael: Both. So I work with project managers so that they can, uh, start playing their A game. Um, but I also work with business owners that need a bit of strategic advice and I come on and kind of, um, sit on a number of boards for, uh, for kind of SMEs really, um, and help give them that adv advice from a project management perspective.
Greg: No, that’s great. Really useful. Well, Rachel, I just wanna thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate that and we hope we can have you on again soon. Um, really useful and I think we could probably do a follow up to this. So thanks again.
Rachael: Fantastic. Thanks so much Greg. Lovely to chat to you.